Guest Post — Jay Rosner — Response to Kevin Washburn

This is the third in a series of posts:

(1) Guest Post — Jay Rosner: The LSAT vs. the GRE: May They Both Lose
(2) Guest Post — Kevin Washburn: The LSAT’s Key Role in Native Legal Education

I’m honored that Prof. Kevin Washburn took the time to respond to a Turtle Talk post of mine.   I had deeply criticized both the LSAT and GRE, but I expressed the hope that the movement to accept both in law school admissions will subject both to the kind of scrutiny, particularly on their disparate impacts, that will be more difficult for them both to withstand.

Prof. Washburn’s post, entitled “The LSAT’s Key Role in Native Legal Education,” emphasized that “… if the LSAT lost its leading role in legal education … it could be bad.  Very bad.”  He then tells the uplifting story of PLSI, which has an admirable record helping 25-35 Native students each year, for decades, succeed in law school by providing them with excellent summer instruction, stipends and role models, among other supports.  He clearly is a proud alumnus of that program.

Prof. Washburn’s primary defense of the LSAT is that its developer, LSAC, has played a major role in funding PLSI over the years.  LSAC is to be commended for that; however, I submit that for those of us advocating fair representation in the legal profession, LSAC’s only positive attribute is its support for PLSI. Continue reading

Guest Post — Jay Rosner: The LSAT vs. the GRE: May They Both Lose

The LSAT vs. the GRE:  May They Both Lose

The monopoly that the LSAT has enjoyed for decades in law school admissions appears to be eroding.  What does that mean for Native American law school aspirants, and for the law schools that desire to increase their number of Native students?

Up until yesterday, the fight to be able to use the GRE in law admissions instead of the LSAT had been led by the University of Arizona Law School, which had accepted a small number of students with GRE scores.  A few other law schools had been studying the possibility, but no other law school joined Arizona until yesterday, when Harvard Law announced that they too would consider the GRE from applicants.

For the foreseeable future, the impact on law admissions will be symbolic only.  Arizona and Harvard will each only accept a small number of applicants based upon their GRE scores, and until a few dozen more law schools join them, the total number of applicants affected may be a few hundred out of tens of thousands.  So, while the current discussion may have substantial implications years down the road, today’s applicants will find this a niche play at best.

The LSAT vs. GRE discussion will likely generate more heat than light.   Folks will look at their differences, which are worth noting:

  • The LSAT is a pencil and paper test, while the GRE is delivered on computer;
  • The LSAT is offered only 4 times per year, while the GRE is offered almost continuously throughout the year;
  • ¾ of the LSAT’s bubble sections, generating its score, are verbal, and only ¼ (one section, informally called “Games”) involves some math-related sensibilities, while fully ½ of the GRE bubble sections are straightforward math, and 1/2 are verbal; and,
  • Under the current rules, a student must report an LSAT score to a law school if he/she has taken it, so only students who have taken the GRE and not the LSAT will have their GRE solely considered.

What most LSAT vs. GRE comparisons will miss are the profound and important ways that these two tests are similar, and both deeply problematic.  Both are created by psychometricians using the same methods, so they share these significant characteristics:

  • They both generate significantly disparate results by gender, race and ethnicity, with Native Americans, Latinos and African Americans scoring much lower on both, on average, than whites and Asian Americans, and females scoring lower than males;
  • The foundation for these disparities could be revealed by item level data, which are statistics on individual test questions that test developers routinely refuse to release because they would expose the way that tests are designed to solidify and maintain those disparities;
  • Scores for both are affected by inequitable access to high-quality, often expensive, test prep, with groups like Native Americans penalized because Native students often can’t afford to pay for test prep courses; and,
  • What equity activists need to do is try to reduce, and even eliminate, the weight that any bubble test is given in any competitive admissions (or financial aid, etc.) decision.

While the last concept may seem fanciful in the law school admissions world, we now have many highly selective undergraduate schools, like Wake Forest, Wesleyan, Mount Holyoke, etc., that have years of successful experience with test-optional admissions policies that serve to reduce the bubble-test burden faced by URM students.

Any Native educators supporting either the LSAT or the GRE are, I contend, missing the forest for the trees.   Bubble tests are designed in a way that Native students are placed at yet another disadvantage in admissions, and these tests should be made optional until they are eliminated entirely.

It should be noted that multistate bar scores will tend to correlate with LSAT (or GRE) scores, since all bubble tests have high correlations with other bubble tests.  That’s not a reason to keep the LSAT; that’s a reason to make sure that all Native bar takers have the benefit of high-quality bar-prep courses to leverage their ability to get their best score on the multistate.


Guest Post by Jay Rosner: Confronting the LSAT

Matthew Fletcher has recently written, “The market for Indian lawyers has never been greater in the history of American law, and it is likely to keep growing for the foreseeable future.”   While the general market for lawyers has been shrinking since even before the recession of 2008, American Indian students now have expanding opportunities in law that were unthinkable only a decade or two ago.

The LSAT is, for many Native prelaw students, the single most formidable impediment on the path to law school.  It is a key to admission to selective law schools, and a lever to what financial aid is available.  How can Native prelaws best overcome the LSAT barrier?

In order to get their best LSAT scores, Native students need access to high-quality LSAT prep courses.   A few prelaws can prepare effectively without an LSAT prep teacher, but most will get their best scores under the guidance of an expert instructor.

Many more American Indian students could benefit from high-quality LSAT prep, which tends to be expensive, if funding were made available to subsidize it.  A good model is the Native American Pipeline to Law Initiative, which provides intensive, subsidized LSAT prep courses to its participants.  This is probably the single most effective targeted investment available to increase the number of competitive Native law school applicants.  Much more of this funding is needed.

Anyone with a suggestion of a funding source to support LSAT prep for Native students should contact Jay Rosner of The Princeton Review Foundation, at

LSAT prep is much closer to a training process than to a purely educational process.  A good analogy is having a tennis coach – someone with experience and expertise who can teach, observe, monitor and fine-tune technique in a way that an individual may have difficulty doing on his/her own.  The great tennis players all have coaches – none of them rely on themselves to improve and perfect their technique.  Having an LSAT prep “coach” is similar.

The LSAT puts a premium on test-taking technique and speed.  The LSAT is essentially a reading bubble test, favoring strong, fast readers with lots of exposure to challenging reading material.  It requires that students be able to handle text and deductive reasoning in very particular ways.   The task for LSAT takers is to leverage their reading ability and become very quick at accurately answering LSAT questions, by learning and perfecting test-taking techniques in the 2 to 3-month period right before the test.  Note that every affluent prelaw has an expert LSAT prep teacher guiding him/her.

A secondary focal point with a much smaller investment would be to develop a cadre of Native LSAT prep teachers who could serve as role models for success on the test.  An LSAT prep teacher need be neither a law student nor a lawyer, although those folks bring additional credibility.  An effective LSAT teacher needs to be able to get a very high score on the LSAT and also needs to be able to and want to successfully communicate with and guide students to get their best LSAT score.  In fact, most of the better LSAT teachers today are neither lawyers nor law students.  Often they have done very well on the SAT and GRE, particularly the reading sections of those tests, and then they take a practice LSAT and decide that they would like to teach that test.

The first step for a prospective Native LSAT prep teacher is to take a carefully timed practice LSAT and get a high score.  The next step would be to attend an intensive LSAT prep training conducted by a master LSAT instructor to determine if the candidate is able to effectively teach LSAT techniques to students.  I’ve been able to place some Native teacher candidates into excellent SAT and ACT teacher trainings conducted by The Princeton Review, but I’ve not yet been able to place even one Native LSAT prep teacher candidate.  I’d like to.

As a long-term critic of the LSAT, I could write a lengthy essay on what I consider to be the LSAT’s faults.  Let it suffice to say here that the LSAT is flawed, limited, skewed, too speeded and addresses only a couple of the many skills that a successful law student and successful lawyer needs.  The LSAT does not come close to predicting success in law school; in fact, it only helps in a very small way to predict first year law school grade point average, which is not very much at all.  Despite that, law schools put way too much weight on the LSAT in admissions, requiring applicants to prioritize LSAT prep.  American Indian students need to take up the challenge, confront the LSAT, try to access an LSAT prep course and get their best score.

Wherever there are serious discussions of Indian Law and the legal profession, enlarging the pipeline for Native lawyers in general, and assisting Native prelaws with the LSAT in particular, should be addressed.  The Indian Law Section of the Federal Bar Association, the National Native American Bar Association, the Indigenous Peoples Section of the American Bar Association, the National Congress of American Indians and state and local Native American Bar Associations are the kinds of organizations that should grapple with this regularly.  Current members and alumni of Native American Law Student Associations at law schools also have a role to play in expanding the pipeline for Native lawyers.